Searchingone1033 -- Point 3: Opening Statement

POINT 3: The Person of the Son


Readers, consider which is more authoritative, my opponent's inferences or the explicit teaching of the apostles.

The apostles taught explicitly that Christ is the agent by which God saves (Romans 6:23 'the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus', Titus 3:5-6 'renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He [God] poured out on us in full measure in Jesus Christ our Savior', Galatians 3:15 'in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles', Hebrews 13:20-21 'God... working in us what is pleasing before him through Jesus Christ'), including justification (Romans 3:24-26; 5:1-2), sanctification (Hebrews 10:10 ‘we have been made holy [‘sanctified’] through the offering of the body of Jesus’), and glorification (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

Did the apostles teach the Trinity as an essential Christian doctrine?

* Acts 2: 3,000 are baptized with the knowledge that God is the Father, and that Jesus Christ is ‘a man clearly attested to you by God with powerful deeds, wonders, and miraculous signs that God performed among you through him’


* Acts 3: The apostles teach that Christ is ‘the servant of God’, that ‘the God of our forefathers, has glorified his servant Jesus’, distinguishing Jesus from God (not just from ‘God the Father’)

* Acts 4: The apostles attribute all creation to God as one person, and refer to Jesus not as God but the servant of God (again distinguishing Jesus from God)

* Acts 5: The apostles teach that God raised Jesus (again distinguishing Jesus from God), and say that God exalted Jesus, raising him to the right hand of God (as distinct from Jesus), preaching to everyone that Jesus was the Christ (not that Jesus was God)

* Acts 7: Stephen preaches Jesus is the son of man (not ‘God’), distinguishes between God and Christ, and says that he saw Jesus and God as two separate beings, with Jesus on the right hand of God

* Acts 8: People are baptized after hearing ‘the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ’, not that Jesus is God

* Acts 10: A household is baptized after the apostles preach that Jesus is ‘the one appointed by God’, and say that Jesus could perform miracles ‘because God was with him’, not because he was God

* Acts 11: Peter defends his baptism of Gentiles who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (not the Trinity), but does not have to defend neglecting to teach that Jesus is really God

* Acts 13: In a lengthy speech Christ is repeatedly distinguished from God, and the good news is that 'God brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus' (not 'Jesus is God')

* Acts 17: God is repeatedly identified as one person ('He'), a person other than Christ, who made the world, and is 'going to judge the world in righteousness, by a man whom he designated', identifying Jesus as a man who is the agent of God, not as God

Why did the apostles never make arguments of my opponent?

Later Christians admitted the apostles never taught Jesus is God, but could not agree why (here).

The apostles predicate Christ's work of salvation on his being a man identical to those he came to save, who really died, and needed salvation (here). But Trinitarians cannot accept that Christ really died (here), and some Trinitarian Bibles obscure the fact he came 'in the flesh', along with making other translation errors motivated by bias (here).

Lacking explicit Biblical teaching that Jesus is the second person of the Trinity, Trinitarians attempt to make a case that Jesus is God on the basis that he:

* Is called THEOS:

My opponent has rightly corrected this (my emphasis):

‘it is not enough that the Father is called God, the Son is called God, and the Holy Spirit is called God. The title in and of itself does not necessitate that each person being called God is the one true God, nor does it irrefutably prove the Trinity.’

Jesus said the same (John 10:33-36).

* Forgave sins:

The disciples could forgive sins (John 20:23), and no one claims they are God.

* Performed miracles

Christ performed miracles not because he was God, but because gave him the power to do so, just like other prophets sent by God (Matthew 9:8, John 3:2; 14:10-11).

Christ taught that the miracles were the work of God through him (John 5:19, 30 ‘the Son can do nothing from himself’, ‘I can do nothing of myself’ John 14:10 ' the Father residing in me performs his miraculous deeds,'), and Scripture states explicitly that he had no power of his own, but received it from God (Matthew 28:18, John 5:19-20, 26, 30; 8:28, Revelation 5:12).

The apostles likewise taught explicitly that the miracles were performed by God, through Christ (Acts 2:22 ‘a man clearly attested to you by God with powerful deeds, wonders, and miraculous signs that God performed among you through him’, Acts 10:42; 17:31, Philippians 2:9).

* Has authority to judge men

Christ has the authority to judge men not because he is God, but because he is a man whom God has appointed with this authority (John 5:22, 27; 17:1-3 Acts 10:42; 17:31).

It is also claimed Jesus:

* Created all things

Christ explicitly attributed the creation to one person who was not himself (Matthew 19:4).

* Is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent

Christ had no power of his own, but received it from God (Matthew 28:18, John 5:19-20, 26, 30; 8:28; 14:10; 17:1-3, Acts 2:22; 10:42; 17:31, Philippians 2:9, Revelation 5:12).

That Christ is not omniscient is proved by the fact that Christ had previously stated explicitly that there was knowledge he did not have (Mark 13:32), and Christ's knowledge has clearly been limited from his life in earth up to and including his current life in heaven (Luke 2:52 'Jesus increased in wisdom', Hebrews 5:8 'he learned obedience', Revelation 1:1 'The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him').

That Christ is not omnipresent is proved by the fact that he told his disciples he would leave them and return later (John 13:33, 36; 14:2-3, 18, 28; 16:7), and the fact that he actually left and it was said by angels that he would return in the future (Acts 1:9-11).

In Matthew 18:20, Christ says that he is present when two or three are gathered in his name, which places a condition on his presence (if he was omnipresent he would be there regardless of who was gathered in what name), and the proof that this is not a declaration of omnipresence is the fact that Paul says exactly the same of himself, and does not say that Christ is literally present, only the power of Christ (1 Corinthians 5:4 ‘When you gather together in the name of our Lord Jesus, and I am with you in spirit, along with the power of our Lord Jesus’).

* Existed from all eternity and had no beginning in time

The Bible says there was a time when God's fatherhood of Christ was still future, demonstrating Christ’s existence is not eternal:

2 Samuel 7:14 'I will become his father and he will become my son.

Scripture also tells us the time that God became the father of Christ:

Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my son! Today I have fathered you”? And in another place he says, “I will be his father and he will be my son.”

Scripture thus tells us explicitly that there was a time when God was not the father of Christ, and Scripture tells us explicitly that there was a time when God became the father of Christ. Thus there was a point in time at which Christ was brought into existence, since in order to be a literal father a person must cause a son to come into existence when previously they did not exist.

In Hebrews 1:6, Paul says ‘But when he [God] again brings his firstborn into the world’, proving that there was a time when God first brought Christ into the world, which could not have occurred if Christ had always existed. This states explicitly that Christ was brought into the world, twice (commentators usually attribute the second to the resurrection of Christ, again proof that Christ did not exist while he was dead).

* Is co-equal with the Father

That Christ is not co-equal with the Father is proved by the fact that he himself declared his subordination (John 5:19, 30 ‘the Son can do nothing from himself’, ‘I can do nothing of myself’, John 14:28 'My Father is greater than I'), and the apostles taught that he is the servant of God (Acts 3:13, 26 ‘his servant Jesus’, ‘God raised up his servant’, Acts 4:27, 30 ‘your holy servant Jesus’).

The later Trinitarian distinction that Christ is ontologically equal but functionally subordinate is made nowhere in Scripture (which declares an unqualified subordination), nor in the Nicene and Athanasian Creeds (which declare an unqualified equality).